If ever anyone ever needed to give it up, it’s Joss Whedon’s frighteningly obsessive, completely nuts Browncoats. Browncoats are a group of people devoted to Joss Whedon’s ‘Firefly’ television show and its subsequent movie spin-off Serenity. And when I say obsessive, I mean really obsessive. These are the kinds of people who sent death threats to critics who didn’t give Serenity positive enough reviews. That’s right, I said positive enough. They even attacked people who liked it, unwilling to settle for anything less than a public acknowledgement of the film as the greatest thing since sliced bread. For their efforts, they were rewarded with one of Hollywood’s all time biggest flops. Put simply, they irritated people right out of seeing the movie.
Now, two years after Serenity’s complete and utter failure, creator Joss Whedon has moved on, but apparently they still haven’t. The science fiction website SFX recently conducted an online poll to determine which movie its readers deemed to be the greatest of all time. Did Star Wars win? Blade Runner? The Matrix? Nope. According to SFX, Serenity is the favorite Sci Fi film of all time, according to their completely useless poll.
What’s interesting to me isn’t their poll, which is mostly meaningless junk, but that this signifies those lunatic Browncoats are still out there pushing a long dead agenda. Clearly, they mobilized their crazed fanboy mass and corrupted the poll by dragging everyone they knew over to SFX to vote for Serenity in it. I mean after all, this is a movie that barely anyone has even seen. Kind of hard for a film no one has watched to be the top anything, let alone beat out something like Star Wars.
Seriously, someone get these people a counseling session. Give it up Browncoats. Serenity was great, but no one saw it, no one will ever see it, and the more you try to shove it down everyone’s throats the less they’re going to want to. You have accomplished exactly nothing.
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I was actually one of the few people that watched this film (on DVD).
I wasn't expecting much, as i hadn't seen the Firefly tv series, but I actually enjoyed the movie.
But there's no way in hell that it even comes close to the quality of such films as Star Wars IV/ V or Blade Runner.
Let's face it... Serenity ain't got s%$@ on those old classics.
Thank you Josh Tyler for your well balanced and unbiased opinion. ;-)
I didn't get to vote in the SFX poll myself, sorry to say, I guess even though I frequent a couple of the Joss Whedon sites and forums I somehow missed this particular "call to arms". If I had of voted, Serenity would of had one more vote, or according to your "conspiracy theory" about an extra hundred or so.
The poll run by SFX was to find out their readers favourite film, not to determine which movie its readers deemed to be the greatest of all time.
I don't know how active the fanbase for Star Wars is these days, pretty active for it to come in second, I would say, and undoubtedly nearly as many of those would of voted repeatedly as did the Serenity fans, so the real winner should surely be Blade Runner.
I know some of you guys seem to find Whedon fans a tad obsessive, but so far there is no actual move to have a religion based around Joss or any of his works, unlike Star Wars fans.
As to your statement that Serenity fans were "rewarded with one of Hollywood’s all time biggest flops", I wonder which criteria you are using. Financially speaking Serenity was a success, though not a massive one and definitely not big enough to build a franchise on, but nowhere even close to a flop.
If you are speaking about whether it was a critical success, being one of the best reviewed Sci-Fi films of 2005 seems to put you slightly in the wrong. Admittedly the rest of the field wasn't so strong seeing as it was only up against the likes of George Lucas' Star Wars III and War of the Worlds by some guy called Steven Spielberg.
If you meant in regard to being garnered with awards, then Serenity still seems to avoid the criteria most people would use for a flop seeing as it won Film 2005 over here in the UK as well as quite a few others, including the "Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form" which was in no way influenced by obsessive fans as it was voted on by members of the World Science Fiction Convention.
I am by no means a Star Wars hater, I love that film and The Empire Strikes Back, but I rate neither of them as high as Blade Runner, Alien(s) or even Terminator. In fact I have never considered Star Wars to even be George Lucas' best work, saving that praise for American Graffiti.
Anyway, I've gotta go now, I have to get to my next "counseling session". :-)
Death threats to critics? Please. Don't you think you're over-exagerating a bit? And even if it were true, ALL fandom is exactly the same. They are ALL obsessed with the shows they like, not just the Browncoats. Yes, I'll admit, there are those fans that take it too far. But not just Browncoats. All fandom has those people that do things they shouldn't!
One of Hollywood's biggest flops? How do you figure? To say it was even a minor dissapointment would be wrong, much less one of Hollywood's BIGGET FLOPS! The film made money for the studio. The Firefly DVD set and Serenity are still one of Amazon's biggest sellers. That's saying something of a show that was only half a season and cancelled 5 years ago! The studio execs have said in several interviews that the movie did exactly what they were expecting it to do. They HOPED it would do better, but every studio HOPES that their film becomes huge. But Serenity is far from a flop. It made money. Oh, another thing. If the movie was so bad, do you actually think the studio would be releasing a 2-disk Special Edition DVD of Serenity in July? Yeah. One of Hollywoods biggest flops. Please.
Your entire article simply sounds like a personal attack on fans of Firefly. You exagerated your statements and had no facts to back them up.
And here's something else to think about. The Browncoats willingness to not give up is what helped get the movie Serenity made! You don't like Firefly or Serenity, fine. Everyone has their own tastes. It's what makes us all unique. But don't tell people that they need to give up. You have no right to tell anyone what they need to do or not do.
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I don't know how active the fanbase for Star Wars is these days, pretty active for it to come in second, I would say, and undoubtedly nearly as many of those would of voted repeatedly as did the Serenity fans, so the real winner should surely be Blade Runner.
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Star Wars doesn't need a bunch of crazed fans to come in second in the poll. It's Star Wars. It really IS a favorite film of many people.
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As to your statement that Serenity fans were "rewarded with one of Hollywood’s all time biggest flops", I wonder which criteria you are using.
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I'm using reality. The place where Serenity made less money at the box office than it cost to make. Without including marketing costs (which were probably 10 - 20 millions themselves), it cost $40 million to make. It grossed $25 mil. Flop.
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If you are speaking about whether it was a critical success, being one of the best reviewed Sci-Fi films of 2005 seems to put you slightly in the wrong.
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I'm not. It's a good movie. The movie's fine, it's just its fans that are the problem.
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Death threats to critics? Please. Don't you think you're over-exagerating a bit?
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Nope. Want to see the ones I got? And I gave the movie 4.5/5. I know others who received similar harassing messages. Browncoats aren't the only ones who go to far, but they've managed to establish themselves as the ones who go the farthest. It might help if more than two people actually liked the movie they obsess over.
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The Browncoats willingness to not give up is what helped get the movie Serenity made!
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And it's also what turned it into a flop. A lot of people were turned off to the film BY the behavior of Browncoats. You killed it. Well done. And now you're back to annoying people again. Give it up.
Interesting point. I agree with the deaththreat thing-a little over the top. But I am a huge Joss Whedon fan and I fully understand people naming it the best (although I would've voted Star Wars). Of the films in the top 10 it had some of the best acting, amazing visuals, and (by far) the best writing. It also showed a newer, grittier (and yes, more western) side to the sci-fi genre. Oh, and your point about it not being seen is a little off. The DVD sales were so great that a highly demanded 2-disc extended version is being released later this year.
Why should fans of any franchise give up enjoying and promoting something they love? Star Wars fans stood in line for days, in costume, waiting for the new trilogy. Star Trek fans routinely take the time to apply prosthetics and learn to speak Klingon in tribute to their favorite universe. More power to them... spreading the word for what they love.
That being said, how often are Star Wars fans banding together to raise money for charity while they celebrate the movies? Or Alien fans? Or Star Trek fans? Or Blade Runner fans? Last year, Browncoats raised over $60,000 to help promote the equality of women and children around the world.
Regarding the death threats... sorry about that. We Browncoats are not all like that. Most of us, I am happy to say, simply love the Firefly universe and love sharing it with others. We would love to see more Serenity films and we will keep promoting the series and movie in that hope. Why should it bother you that we do so? As someone who gave the movie 4.5 out of 5, you would probably go see (or rent) another Serenity film if it were made. Regardless of the focus of their fanaticism, people who practice negativity toward others for the sake of something as inconsequential as a movie have bigger problems than Star Wars vs. Serenity.
As for me, I voted for Serenity in the poll because at this point in my life I enjoy that franchise more than that of Star Wars. Star Wars is one of my earliest childhood memories. I was two years old when it came out. I had a great many of the toys, comic books, novelizations, etc. I have watched the Star Wars movies over and over. Now, 30 years later, I watch Firefly and Serenity over and over, choosing a Sci-Fi vision that I can identify with as an adult.
Universal says that between box office totals, rentals, and merchandise, they recouped their expenses on Serenity.
And hey... $25 million for a movie based on a cancelled television show, with a cast of largely unknown actors, that was barely promoted, is really not that bad. According to this list on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_box_office_bombs , in the box office, Serenity managed to make 62.5% of the production budget. Only five or so of the numerous other movies on the list managed as well or better, including Queen of the Damned, Get Rich or Die Tryin, and Maximum Overdrive. How many of those movies can boast a devoted, motivated fanbase and continued, steady sales?
BROWNCOATS: To those for whom it applies, knock off the negativity. I love Firefly and Serenity, but they are still only entertainment media. There's enough hate in the world, already.
NON-FANS: Continue to celebrate what you love and share it with others, and we Browncoats will do the same. Maybe we can all meet up for drinks and lively conversation...!
FAN-HATERS: No better than the fans they complain about.
Just a couple of minor facts you may wish to consider,first the 25 million figure being used i believe refers to the American box office take, not worldwide and does not include things like DVD sales and so on, and second SFX is a British magazine and Serenity did far better in Britain than it did in the states so it would generally do better in a British magazine survey.
As an additional point of interest I didnt know about this poll, nor did any of my browncoat friends I have spoken to since, so the lunatic machine obviously forgot to inform us.
So, people whose favourite movie is Serenity voted Serenity as their favourite movie in an open online poll. Good heavens! The scandal!
Seriously though, I'm very sorry to hear you a had a bad experience with a few Browncoats. There are always people who go too far, especially when great passions are involved.
I have been involved in a few fandoms in my days (and I mean that in a very broad sense, not just Sci-Fi/Fantasy), and I can honestly say that the many Browncoats I have encountered are among the dearest, kindest, and most thoughtful people I have met. They are a found family that has changed my life for the better, and that I am very proud to be a part of.
You can rant all you want, but we are not going away and we are not giving up. We have found something we love, we have found each other, and we know that there are others out there who will find it too. And we know this for an absolute fact, because we see it first hand, as more and more people discover this little gem of a show, and as our numbers continue to grow day by day.
We will continue to vote for the show we love in online polls. We will continue to champion its cause in blogs and forums. We will continue to proudly wear Serenity and Firefly badges and t-shirts, and hold shindigs, and loan DVDs to friends and family, and have ourselves a really good time doing it.
And yes, we will even continue to organise screenings of Serenity worldwide every year on or around June 23, to raise money for charity as well as allow ourselves and others the opportunity to see the Big Damn Movie on the Big Damn Screen. Last year we raised $65,000 for charity, and this year we are gunning for $100,000 (see http://cantstoptheserenity.com for details), and all the ill-tempered rants in the 'verse ain't gonna stop us.
There are crazy Firefly/Serenity fans, but they are in the minority. Just like the crazy Star Wars fans are in the minority. The rest are just passionate, good peeps.
So they won an online poll?
Big deal. It's not going to change anything. This baiting --or whatever it is you think you're doing-- is simply going to get more hits on your page than usual. But that, I suspect, is what you wanted.
Certainly, they are no worse than Star Wars fanatics would have been had there been a public internet in 1977. And no worse than Star Trek fanatics, either. Let's face it, nerds (among whose numbers I count myself) tend to be rather obsessive about anything and everything. How many people do you know who can quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail verbatim from memory? However, you are making some pretty blanket statements about the fan community without any evidence that I can see to support your claims. Should this evidence arise, I would be more than happy to concede your point. However, I don't see how Browncoats can be considered any more harmful than obsessive Star Wars and Star Trek fans. In fact, I feel that they are less pathetic than those who occupy the most obsessive levels of the latter two groups.
"And it's also what turned it into a flop. A lot of people were turned off to the film BY the behavior of Browncoats. You killed it. Well done. And now you're back to annoying people again. Give it up."
Whatever dude. The film made money. Accept it. Like I said, there are crazed fans of Firefly, but to group all of them into one catagory is closed-minded. I NEVER forced the movie down anyone's throats. If someone asked me if it was good, I told them I loved it. I recomended it to some, they watched it and didn't like it. I simply told them sorry, and moved on. I didn't turn anyone off of the movie. I didn't kill anything, and I speak for thousands of others I'm sure that didn't either. To say that all of us are crazed fans because you got a death threat from someone is crazy. I guess since one writer wrote an article I didn't like, ALL writers are out to get me now.
You say you liked the film. Great. You don't think it should've got number one? Cry me a river. I didn't think the show should've been canceled either. Stuff happens. They were asked to vote and they voted. So what? (By the way, I didn't even vote, cause I don't care) The only reason I replied to your article is because it was unsettleing. As a Browncoat, all I have is half a season and a movie. So what's it to you if I like to enjoy what I've got? Even if I did vote for Serenity, so what? If I enjoy doing things like that, if I enjoy hanging out on Firefly boards and talking to fellow fans from time to time, if I enjoy the thought that maybe another movie will get made, SO WHAT!? Again, who are you to tell me what I should or shouldn't do? I don't have to give up anything I don't want to.
Sorry if this turned into a rant. There are so many more serious things in life that I need advice on. There are so many things I have to do because I'm required to. But my choice in entertainment isn't one of them. It's entertainment. It's what I do to unwind. The LAST thing I want to read is someone telling me I have to give that up too!
I'm a Browncoat, and a Whedonite. I think it was extremely unfair of FOX to treat the show the way they did, and I bought the DVDs as soon as I was able. I went to see Serenity in the theaters and bought it and the soundtrack as soon as they were available.
I didn't take part in the poll because I chose not to.
However, I'd like to point out something: A few short months ago a major fan-run convention was cancelled literally at the last minute - some of the scheduled guests, and attendees, were actually flying into the airport as the convention holders were announcing on their website that they were cancelling it. Did that stop people from having a memorable weekend? No. A group of fans in the area rallied, took matters into their own hands, got online donations, negotiated with the hotel, and put on a back-up "bash" for their fellow fans. Those actors who were scheduled showed up, as did some who weren't scheduled, but had heard about the fiasco. Not one of them got paid for their time, as is the norm with a convention. They showed up out of the goodness of their hearts. Some of them even brought merchandise related to their show and movie, from their own personal collection, to give away to fans.
What was the convention? Booster Entertainment's Flanvention II. Which became known as Back-Up Booster Bash. Who were the fans that managed to pull it off in a short 24 hours? California Browncoats. Who were some of the scheduled (and unscheduled) guests who came any way? Nathan Fillion, Adam Baldwin, Alan Tudyk. Clare Kramer (Glory from "Buffy: the Vampire Slayer") even opened up her restaurant ahead of schedule for the fans.
Yeah, we're all a bunch of crazed fans who need to back off. Uh-huh. Whatever.
I'm not sure if this is a late April Fool's joke, but the "all time biggest flop" jab is pretty irresponsible. It wasn't profitable in theatres and hence the planned trilogy was never completed, but only losing $15 million isn't even in the same ballpark as the real "all time biggest flops". People who aren't familiar with the material would assume that it wasn't profitable and would not be aware that the movie did turn a profit after DVD sales and such. You also left out the upcoming special edition DVD, which would not be possible if the movie was "one of the all time biggest flops".
As for death threats, a couple of mentally ill people do not represent the entire Firefly fandom, so it's really not worth bringing up. This is the internet. It allows a historically unparalleled level of access to communication for people who probably shouldn't be let out of their cage for more than an hour a day.
We are crazy obsessive fans, and we certainly enthusiastically overpromote anything Firefly related, but we are not unique. Hell, we aren't even unique among the genre.
You're wrong. I go to the browncoat boards sometimes and let me assure you: new people are seeing Firefly and Serenity everyday. I am constantly seeing posts from people who just watched the series and are amazed at the quality of both it and the movie.
So why should we give it up, what if the Trekkies gave up? Would they have gotten so many continuations of their beloved series? No, not a chance.
Sure fans are sometimes obsessive, I mean the word fan does come from the word fanatic, but why shouldn’t they be? They’ve discovered something great and want to share it with the rest of the world. Can you really fault them for that?
BTW I know a lot of browncoats and I don’t believe for a seconded any of them gave death threats, if any browncoats did it is VERY few and doesn’t represent us as a whole.
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt , from a speech at the Sorbonne
- Starwars (with the exception of the original) sucked.
- Serenity was an 'ok' B kind of movie, but nothing groundbreaking or unique- your 4.5 was a gift.
- Firefly was a great, almost exceptional TV series treated very poorly- like a lot of others.
- if you're gonna call that poll meaningless, etc., then sheesh, let me send you a few urls for some *really* pointless polls.
- and if you find Browncoats offensive and crazy, wow- i'm just terribly surprised. i mean, who'd suspect that a SF show/movie would have crazed fans that do stuff like invent religions and languages and post detailed specs of equipment and have arguments about silly plot points at conventions?
- so, yep, surpise! them Browncoats are nutters.
- and your article seemed almost as extreme (ok, you didn't threaten anyone, I admit it) as they do; that's the only thing that surprised me at all.
and if they really are that nuts, why post this article? need some more hate mail? sort of like sending coals to Newcastle, or arguing with 'Scapers about Ben Browder's acting ability...
$25 million? Guess you neglected to add the international box office totals:
Worldwide: $38,869,464
Your $25 million figure is domestic only and misleads readers into the false belief that the movie did worse than it actually did. You also neglected to mention that the dvd for the movie has been selling very well for the 18 months since the movies release, so well in fact that a two disc special edition is planned for release this summer. Guess those facts somehow escaped your attention, or perhaps they did not factor well into your personal rant against the fanbase. Perhaps there is some more personal reason for this attack on the browncoats?
Since when do we hold an entire group of people responsible for the actions of a few? A few people supposedly make death threats and suddenly ALL browncoats are responsible? All browncoats are rabid, irrational fans due to the behavior of a handful? Well if that is your reasoning then you should pass sentence on the entire country, for that matter the entire human race, because last time I looked there are some screwed up people doing things a lot worse than "making death threats".
Oh wait. Guess that means YOU are responsible too Josh T since we are holding all members of a group responsible for the actions of a few. Since there are some screwed up people in the human race we have to lump you in with them, regardless of whether or not your guilty and sentence you right along with them, right? Pretty ridiculous don't you think? Not very logical or rational either. About as irrational and as illogical as your trying to label an entire fanbase for the problems caused by a handful of people who consider themselves part of a fanbase of tens of thousands. Me personally, I wouldn't call anyone a browncoat who would stoop so low as to make a death threat on anyone over a movie review. Browncoats are better people than that.
You might want to rethink your position on the browncoat community and what it stands for in reality. If you don't, well, that's your right. Seems a little shortsighted and biased is all.
Love Serenity. Wouldn't say it was the GREATEST film of all time, but I'm a Browncoat, I adore it and everything to do with it, and think it was treated incredabliy unfairly. It was a low budget film, and it didn't make as much money as... say, the Blockbusters it was competing with, but it was still a sucess.
Death threats? From who exactly?! Whedon fans are very loyal and stick together, they have a great way of being noticed... it involves partying and giving money (and occasionaly blood) to charity.
I think you do not give us an objetive opinion on this article but only your personal feeling about how can a small budget film beat great supermillion Star Wars film... it looks like you are really angry about it, ask yourself why.
Stop using generalities and half-truths to make your argument, dude. It makes you look worse than the worst fans out there, and I trust me I've seen some doozies.
I love the last line in your little disclaimer at the bottom of the page: "Don't take us too seriously." It's amusing in its irony. Perhaps you should take your own advice.
Considering that Quentin Tarantino's new film got a 75 million dollar publicity tab, I think Serenity did pretty well with the measly 10 million in advertising dollars it did get.
And if the studio would have kept it in the theaters for longer than a few weeks, it would've done a lot better.
But I do agree with you - we Browncoats are devoted to Joss.
Well, the latest news is that we have official confirmation from Universal, in writing, that Serenity made a profit - not a loss - at the box office, and that's *before* all the DVD sales. Deal with it.
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If ever anyone ever needed to give it up, it’s Joss Whedon’s frighteningly obsessive, completely nuts Browncoats. Browncoats are a group of people devoted to Joss Whedon’s ‘Firefly’ television show and its subsequent movie spin-off Serenity. And when I say obsessive, I mean really obsessive. These are the kinds of people who sent death threats to critics who didn’t give Serenity positive enough reviews. That’s right, I said positive enough. They even attacked people who liked it, unwilling to settle for anything less than a public acknowledgement of the film as the greatest thing since sliced bread. For their efforts, they were rewarded with one of Hollywood’s all time biggest flops. Put simply, they irritated people right out of seeing the movie.
April 3rd, 2007 at 02:09
I was actually one of the few people that watched this film (on DVD).
I wasn't expecting much, as i hadn't seen the Firefly tv series, but I actually enjoyed the movie.
But there's no way in hell that it even comes close to the quality of such films as Star Wars IV/ V or Blade Runner.
Let's face it... Serenity ain't got s%$@ on those old classics.